.NET'ers tell Scoble why they left for Rails
Posted by David December 20, 2005 @ 08:21 PM
Microsoft’s Robert Scoble is concerned about the exodus of developers like Phil Ripperger that are leaving .NET for Ruby on Rails. Phil put it like this:
Scoble, as a web developer who is now doing freelance work for a living, my framework of choice is Ruby on Rails. Mostly for the reasons listed here. And also because Microsoft’s web development technologies have lost their appeal. I can remember being blown away by ASP.NET when I first saw it. I now feel even more strongly about Rails. And when I talk to businesses and friends who are developers, I make sure they know about Rails.
Sure, I know about the new Visual Studio, ASP.NET 2.0, the new SharePoint, and the new SQL Server. And I just don’t care. Microsoft needs to capture some of the 360 magic and use it on their web development technology or they will continue to lose developers like me.
Scoble is inviting people to tell him and Microsoft why .NET and family just isn’t doing it for them any more. If you have a good story to share, do let them know.
Not to mention that VS.net is just a clunky POS IDE… I am so jealous to see the simplicity of TextMate and the RoR structure.
I personally don’t use the WYSIWYG designing features of vs.net or 70% of the other “features.” It gets to a point where the amount of features actually slows down my productivity because they hide the core tasks/ideas behind the editor.
I actually just fired up VS.NET 2005 and SQL 2005 recently for a job here at work. I was shocked, SHOCKED, at how slow both environments ran. Slow doesn’t begin to describe it. I use to think Komodo was slow, but man compared to VS.NET 2005 it is a race horse (and my editor of choice now that it supports Ruby). Honestly, I’m not sure where Microsoft is going, but their development tools are getting further and further behind. None of my side projects involve Microsoft anymore. I’ve moved my clients to MySQL or Postgresql, PHP, Ruby, Python, or whatever suits the job best. And guess what, it pays just the same as before – but without the headache.
Heh, maybe I won’t have to learn .Net after all (for employability reasons) :).
This is sort of a ray of hope in my career: My previous job had me developing in C, using the Borland 3.1 compiler!
As a result, I have only picked up bits of C#/ASP.Net – certainly nothing to impress any potential employer. RoR presents such an opportunity for me now – I can get on learning and developing with a pleasant language and framework, and improve my prospects without having to become yet-another-dot-net-developer!
Ace.
Microsoft development tools are a reflex of the institution: Heavy, not agile, not open, not cool, not adapted to the developer needs, not truly inovative, ...
Rails and Ruby are Light, Agile, Open, Realy cool, adapted to humans, revolutionary!!
Zero cost, productivity, open source, fun. Those are my reasons for being on Rails.
As we all know there is much goodness in Rails and if I could chose what framework to use for a client I would probably select it. However, in the real world we have to work in the technology the exec’s have selected. Furthermore, I will work in whatever framework will make me the most $. If they want me to use java or .net I will. The fact is, on average, open source developers do not make as much $. Of course there are exceptions but, this is a fact of developer life. If this wasn’t the case I would be working on linux writing everything in ruby or perl using vim.
“open source developers do not make as much $”—where do you get this information from? All of the top developers I know are getting showered with jobs because of their open source involvement.
There are lots of upcoming firms, like 37signals, that gets this and don’t hire people unless they have a proven open source record. So sure, The Enterprise is usually a couple of years behind the curve and care more about a CV than work done in wild.
But why would anyone willing want to pursue that? Rails is for people who have more passion for what they do than what can get them the biggest grey cubicle and most casual Friday.
There is a “real world” outside of what the “exec’s have selected”. And its very rewarding.
“where do you get this information from?” - the many people I know in the tech industry. - recruiters I have worked with over the past few years. As a matter of fact last night the recruiting firm I work for took us out for a christmas dinner last night. I asked them what skill sets are getting the most $, they said java and .net. I specifically asked about open source related development related positions. They didn’t have any. - the various job sites.
“All of the top developers I know are getting showered with jobs because of their open source involvement.” Hey thats great! But, you must realize you are a central figure doing open source web application development. If anyone would know some ruby/php/perl developers making six figures, it would be you.
“There are lots of upcoming firms, like 37signals, that gets this and don’t hire people unless they have a proven open source record. So sure, The Enterprise is usually a couple of years behind the curve and care more about a CV than work done in wild.” ok.
“But why would anyone willing want to pursue that? Rails is for people who have more passion for what they do than what can get them the biggest grey cubicle and most casual Friday.” It is absurd to say these things! I guess java and .net developers dont have a passion for what they do. C’mon. The biggest grey cubicle and most casual Friday. Get real. My last job which lasted two years was a consulting gig where I worked remotely out of my house.
“There is a “real worldâ€? outside of what the “exec’s have selectedâ€?. And its very rewarding.” Yes, there is. I have had three side jobs where I released web applications using all open source tools (perl, php, mysql, linux). But getting a full time job using these or rails, my salary would be cut and there would be many less jobs.
I work in the North Eastern part of the United States (I have had jobs in NY, PA, NJ, and DE). To see whats available in my area a local (for me) technical job site is www.jobcirle.com. If I convinced my current employer to use Rails (or Open Source) and sometime later had to find a new job. For my next job with Rails (or Open Source), I would have to find a job working remotely, move, take a pay cut, or some combination of these.
Let me be clear, if I could make the same salary and be able to easily find my next job I would be most likely be using rails right now.
I asked them what skill sets are getting the most $, they said java and .net. I specifically asked about open source related development related positions.
I think you’re missing something here—the question to ask is “how does being a developer on a large open source product used by thousands of people help a person get hired on at a high bill rate?”
The way you framed the question was like asking a mechanic’s guild “what’s the bill rate for a person that’s worked on a 1945 Ford?” No wonder they looked at you funny.
I asked them what skill sets are getting the most $, they said java and .net. I specifically asked about open source related development related positions.
I think you’re missing something here—the question to ask is “how does being a developer on a large open source product used by thousands of people help a person get hired on at a high bill rate?”
The way you framed the question was like asking a mechanic’s guild “what’s the bill rate for a person that’s worked on a 1945 Ford?” No wonder they looked at you funny.
Sorry for the double post, the submit button just spun around for a bit and gave no indication clicking it did anything. Refreshing the page 10 seconds later didn’t show my post either.
Who wrote this commenting software? :)
Well, I think it uses AJAX :P
I heard it uses php;). Open source, but not Ruby on Rails:)